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EBurch
USA
138 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2005 : 13:35:38
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An obvious question is - How often has a claim been made against either NAR or TRA insurance.
From the NAR Insurance FAQ -
25. How many claims have been filed to date? For what?
Since NAR first offered insurance in 1993, three claims for approximately $2,100 have been filed. All of these were for propetry damage claims.
From the TRA Insurance FAQ
7. Has there ever been a claim against Tripoli‘s insurance?
Yes. One of our members, along with a landowner, was named in a lawsuit involving a minor launching a model rocket at a launch event the member was sponsoring. The member in question had not obtained an insurance certificate for the landowner. The claim is currently pending. This is a good example of using extreme caution when assisting in launches involving non Tripoli members. Depending on the outcome of the claim, our member is out at least $2,500.
Both FAQs go on to make the same point - fly by the rules and the safety codes, fill out the forms correctly, and insurance is a non-issue.
Four claims total between both groups in over a decade of flying rockets - a risk possibly but hardly likely.
The real question to ask before creating 2 separate clubs is - Is it worth splitting our already lean manpower resources into two clubs or is it better to leverage the existing manpower and grow it as a single club? When we do Hobby Shop flyers and static displays is it going to be SARA, or is it going to be membership contest - NAR vs TRA?
Eric
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Edited by - EBurch on 04/12/2005 16:34:58 |
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JacobD
45 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2005 : 23:32:25
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First of all I would like to thank Jerry for his very pleasant and friendly discussion of this topic.
I still however am in agreement with Eric. As a club SARA has not had any incidents in which we have even come close to needing to use the NAR insurance. I understand that this does not mean it is not possible. Even if there was an incident, what is to keep SARA from announcing the launches to be NAR or Tripoli prior to the start of the launch in order to avoid confusion over which insurance is covering the event?
In my eyes this is an issue that has the potential to split our club, but it truly does not need to. I believe that if we actually sat down and worked at it we could resolve any of these concerns, and still keep our numbers as they are.
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Nothing is ever perfect until it has been upscaled.
vnom37@gmail.com |
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EBurch
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2005 : 20:25:47
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SARA Member:
To facilitate a discussion and to vote on joint TRA/NAR chapter membership, the board has scheduled a members meeting for Saturday, June 4th, at 5:00 PM; the location will be at Lasertel, 7775 N. Casa Grande Hwy (On the Southbound frontage road between Cortaro and Ina). This date was chosen to allow members time to plan as well as avoid conflicts with NSL and ROC-Stock. It is the desire of the Board to hear your thoughts, questions, and concerns. SARA is a democracy and the board will act based upon the desires of the members. We will discuss any other topics of interest you have at the meeting.
The proposal is reviewed in detail below. We encourage you to read it carefully. Please email your Board members with anything that might help you better understand the proposal as well as any topics you would like to discuss at the meeting.
As most of you know some members of SARA are asking the Board to look into making SARA a joint National Association of Rocketry (NAR)/Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) club. The primary goal would be to reach the most number of rocketry enthusiasts in Southern Arizona and meet them where they are. As stated in the SARA by-laws SARA was created for the purpose of aiding and encouraging all those interested in rocketry, and to engage in other scientific, educational, or related activities. On our website it states “Our goal is to promote model and high power rocketry, educate ourselves and the public, and to have fun.” These members believe SARA would be better fulfilling its purposes if SARA became a joint affiliated association. Becoming a joint affiliation club will ensure SARA is listed on both the NAR and Tripoli club registry increasing awareness of SARA in the rocketry community.
It is not the purpose of SARA to advocate one rocketry organization over another. One can find plenty of opportunities to explore rocketry in either NAR or TRA. Our desire is to provide for members of the association a safe and consistent launch opportunity.
Currently SARA is unable to offer certifications to members of Tripoli. If a Tripoli member wants to certify L1 or L2 they must travel to Phoenix because there are no TRA prefectures in Southern Arizona. While NAR certifications are recognized at a TRA launch and vice versa, you must be a member of NAR to be certified at a SARA launch.
TRA and NAR approach the junior members (under 18) of rocketry differently. Tripoli offers junior certifications with level F and G motors as a stepping stone into High Power. There is no age restriction and the intent is to recognize the younger members of our hobby that have moved up from motors E and smaller. NAR doesn’t offer certifications for F and G since they are not considered High Power but does offers a supervised Level 1 certification for junior members 14 to 17. They must build the rocket and fly it successfully but are limited in what they can do with the motor. Again the goal is to recognize the effort made by younger members in the pursuit of rocketry. So it doesn’t matter if you have a clever 12 year old or an industrious 17 year old, each organization has something to offer.
All lot has been said about the EX or experimental part of Tripoli membership. Tripoli, unlike NAR does allow for the development of experimental motors by individuals level 2 or above under very specific guidelines. The more exotic (and risky) fuels like LOX/H2 are specifically prohibited and most of the work is done with either Ammonium Perchlorate/Aluminum or Potassium Nitrate/Sorbitol motors. The major advantage of EX is that we would be able to offer senior members an additional avenue to enjoy the hobby. In addition, many Colleges and Universities that want enjoy amateur rocketry would be inclined to participate if EX was an option. If you look online at some of the major projects launched by Universities they involved all aspects of engineering including making the motor. The details of EX have not been worked out with the city or TIMPA and will not be pursued until it is clear that a joint club will be approved by the membership. At that point, you might see 3 to 4 EX launches a year and the location could be either at TIMPA or in airspace to the Southeast that would offer a higher ceiling and a larger field allowing larger motors. Either way commercial and EX launches would be separate activities.
Of course, there are some negatives. The first is dues – as a joint club we would pay national dues to both NAR and TRA. This would cost the club $100 a year more than we are paying now. The dues for the first year has been offered to the club as a gift by several members who realize it was not included in this year’s budget. After the first year the club would be responsible for that amount. . Second, EX can be safe, but it does carry a higher probability of failure with a greater risk of injury or property damage and therefore deserves greater caution. Third, TRA is perceived by some as a predominantly High Power organization and an increase in HPR activity, especially larger rockets carries a greater risk as well.
The last thing to be discussed is insurance. While both TRA and NAR offer insurance at sanctioned launches there is concern that in the event of an accident there might be issues determining which insurance is primary. Therefore, each launch will be designated as either a TRA or a NAR sanctioned launch to avoid the possibility of confusion.
Please come to the members meeting and thank you.
Respectfully
Eric Burch
VP of SARA
Jay Dickhous President jdhous1@netscape.net
Eric Burch VP ewb@desertrockets.org
Doug Forester Sec/Treasurer dougf.att@worldnet.att.net
Ken Weaver Member-at-large vid2u@aol.com
Jerry King Senior Advisor 73667.61@compuserve.com
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EBurch
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2005 : 07:34:10
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As many of you know SARA held a meeting on June 4th and voted in the affirmative to become a duel TRA/NAR Club. The paperwork for the Prefecture will go in this week and hopefully we can be ready to certifications to TRA members in July or August. I want to personally thank all those who participated in the discussion and vote. SARA will be a better club for it.
Thanks Again
Eric |
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EBurch
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2005 : 08:26:48
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SARA has been granted TRA Prefecture #093! Hopefully we will have our first TRA certification flights at the August launch. We will be voting on the changes to the by-laws in late September or early October. All SARA members will receive a copy of the proposed changes in August.
Thanks again for all of the help!
Eric |
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EBurch
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 10:19:05
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| I wanted to remind everybody of the SARA Club meeting on September 17th. The meeting will be at 5:00 pm at Lasertel, 7775 N. Casa Grande Hwy (On the Southbound frontage road between Cortaro and Ina). We will be voting on the proposed by-law changes that will complete the process of designating SARA a joint National Association of Rocketry / Tripoli Rocket Association club. Additionally, we will be discussing the proposal for SARA to sponsor NARAM and the options for the Spring Anniversary Launch. |
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EBurch
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2005 : 09:25:25
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Well it's official. The by-laws were approved unanimously and SARA is now a joint NAR/TRA club! Thanks for all the help.
Eric |
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rdbones
USA
134 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2005 : 14:23:22
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Eric - Thanks for all of the effort that you have put into this.
You did a great job with is, and it shows.
Thanks
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"No Chute" Roy Polmanteer
NAR #83979 L-2 |
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Benefits of Tripoli\NAR Joint Affiliation
